Comments on: Church Sell-By Date http://www.wordandspirit.co.uk/blog/2009/07/01/church-sell-by-date/ pursuing faithfulness to the Word of God and fullness of the Spirit of God Sat, 21 Jan 2012 12:08:20 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Al Shaw http://www.wordandspirit.co.uk/blog/2009/07/01/church-sell-by-date/comment-page-1/#comment-16140 Al Shaw Fri, 23 Jul 2010 22:34:53 +0000 http://www.wordandspirit.co.uk/blog/2009/07/01/church-sell-by-date/#comment-16140 I recently read another quote by Steve Timmis to the effect that every local church is culturally contextualised - in just depends what era that culture is from! I recently read another quote by Steve Timmis to the effect that every local church is culturally contextualised – in just depends what era that culture is from!

]]> By: Mark Heath http://www.wordandspirit.co.uk/blog/2009/07/01/church-sell-by-date/comment-page-1/#comment-9166 Mark Heath Sun, 06 Sep 2009 20:05:29 +0000 http://www.wordandspirit.co.uk/blog/2009/07/01/church-sell-by-date/#comment-9166 excellent question Marcus. Its one worth pondering. One thing that churches can do is to regularly review their different ministries and small groups, as well as the way they run their Sunday meetings. Sometimes a ministry can simply become stale, and needs some reinvigoration. This can require pastoral sensitivity, especially if there is a need for a change of leadership. One thing that I think is a real danger sign is a stagnant membership - if there is no one new joining, (and to a lesser extent if there is no one leaving to serve the Lord in other places, meaning that there is no new leadership needed), the church is in real danger of losing inertia. excellent question Marcus. Its one worth pondering. One thing that churches can do is to regularly review their different ministries and small groups, as well as the way they run their Sunday meetings. Sometimes a ministry can simply become stale, and needs some reinvigoration. This can require pastoral sensitivity, especially if there is a need for a change of leadership.

One thing that I think is a real danger sign is a stagnant membership – if there is no one new joining, (and to a lesser extent if there is no one leaving to serve the Lord in other places, meaning that there is no new leadership needed), the church is in real danger of losing inertia.

]]> By: Marcus Honeysett http://www.wordandspirit.co.uk/blog/2009/07/01/church-sell-by-date/comment-page-1/#comment-9164 Marcus Honeysett Sun, 06 Sep 2009 16:21:25 +0000 http://www.wordandspirit.co.uk/blog/2009/07/01/church-sell-by-date/#comment-9164 Excellent reflection and excellent question about "what would it mean if we were doing the same things as 20 years ago." Any further thoughts about how to discern when inertia has got so ingrained that it becomes structurally unalterable? What do you think are the tipping points where a church moves imperceptibly from being dynamic and progressive to passive and reactionary? Excellent reflection and excellent question about “what would it mean if we were doing the same things as 20 years ago.”

Any further thoughts about how to discern when inertia has got so ingrained that it becomes structurally unalterable? What do you think are the tipping points where a church moves imperceptibly from being dynamic and progressive to passive and reactionary?

]]> By: Ian http://www.wordandspirit.co.uk/blog/2009/07/01/church-sell-by-date/comment-page-1/#comment-8440 Ian Thu, 09 Jul 2009 17:19:57 +0000 http://www.wordandspirit.co.uk/blog/2009/07/01/church-sell-by-date/#comment-8440 Mark The point I was making is that the idea that a church can have a 'sell by date' is foreign to the NT. In the NT there was only one church in a locality - so how could it go out of date? I just think we should be careful about allowing a disposability of church, and of allowing churches to stagnate rather than the much more challenging, difficult and lengthy process of staying around and being change within a church. Mark

The point I was making is that the idea that a church can have a ‘sell by date’ is foreign to the NT. In the NT there was only one church in a locality – so how could it go out of date? I just think we should be careful about allowing a disposability of church, and of allowing churches to stagnate rather than the much more challenging, difficult and lengthy process of staying around and being change within a church.

]]> By: Mark Heath http://www.wordandspirit.co.uk/blog/2009/07/01/church-sell-by-date/comment-page-1/#comment-8389 Mark Heath Sun, 05 Jul 2009 21:56:31 +0000 http://www.wordandspirit.co.uk/blog/2009/07/01/church-sell-by-date/#comment-8389 Rick, thanks for the clarification. I agree with us needing our own experience of the living God. I'm not sure planning our own demise is the answer, but I can see there is some truth to his observations about the second and third generation. Ian, you make a good point about denominationalism. I do think though that realistically there will always be multiple local churches in a large town, and these will naturally have different characteristics reflecting the gifting and personalities of both its leaders and its wider membership. Rick, thanks for the clarification. I agree with us needing our own experience of the living God. I’m not sure planning our own demise is the answer, but I can see there is some truth to his observations about the second and third generation.

Ian, you make a good point about denominationalism. I do think though that realistically there will always be multiple local churches in a large town, and these will naturally have different characteristics reflecting the gifting and personalities of both its leaders and its wider membership.

]]> By: Ian http://www.wordandspirit.co.uk/blog/2009/07/01/church-sell-by-date/comment-page-1/#comment-8348 Ian Fri, 03 Jul 2009 18:01:05 +0000 http://www.wordandspirit.co.uk/blog/2009/07/01/church-sell-by-date/#comment-8348 Hmm. I'm not sure that it is about the age of a church or a denomination, but about the adaptability and willingness to 'become all things'. I have seen baptist and anglican church that have been more willing to do this than newly planted churches using a paradigm that was fine in a 'parent' church 20 years ago but looked old already. Besides - this is a sort of foreign concept in scripture. The NT church in a town just was - it probably ebbed and flowed and adapted, but remained the church in that town. We should be careful that we down form our ecclesiology around denominationalism. Hmm. I’m not sure that it is about the age of a church or a denomination, but about the adaptability and willingness to ‘become all things’. I have seen baptist and anglican church that have been more willing to do this than newly planted churches using a paradigm that was fine in a ‘parent’ church 20 years ago but looked old already.

Besides – this is a sort of foreign concept in scripture. The NT church in a town just was – it probably ebbed and flowed and adapted, but remained the church in that town. We should be careful that we down form our ecclesiology around denominationalism.

]]> By: dave bish http://www.wordandspirit.co.uk/blog/2009/07/01/church-sell-by-date/comment-page-1/#comment-8346 dave bish Fri, 03 Jul 2009 15:47:02 +0000 http://www.wordandspirit.co.uk/blog/2009/07/01/church-sell-by-date/#comment-8346 Marcus Honeysett's latests posts on Church going stalling are helpful here http://marcushoneysett.squarespace.com/blog/10-reasons-churches-stall-part-1.html http://marcushoneysett.squarespace.com/blog/10-reasons-churches-stall-part-2.html Marcus Honeysett’s latests posts on Church going stalling are helpful here
http://marcushoneysett.squarespace.com/blog/10-reasons-churches-stall-part-1.html
http://marcushoneysett.squarespace.com/blog/10-reasons-churches-stall-part-2.html

]]> By: Rick http://www.wordandspirit.co.uk/blog/2009/07/01/church-sell-by-date/comment-page-1/#comment-8336 Rick Fri, 03 Jul 2009 01:44:51 +0000 http://www.wordandspirit.co.uk/blog/2009/07/01/church-sell-by-date/#comment-8336 Mark - I agree with your clarification but I'll add a bit more to the reference to John Wimber because while not contradictory, was slightly different than the point you are driving. John would say every denomination should plan its own demise. He would then elaborate that this is because every generation needs a fresh encounter with Christ. If not, the tendency is for the 2nd generation to simply propagate tradition and then the 3rd generation, sensing the emptiness in that, rebells. Or the older v. younger brother dynamic takes place where both (a la the Prodigal Son) miss the Father in their own brand of rebellion. Either way, the point was we need our own experience with the living God. Mark – I agree with your clarification but I’ll add a bit more to the reference to John Wimber because while not contradictory, was slightly different than the point you are driving. John would say every denomination should plan its own demise. He would then elaborate that this is because every generation needs a fresh encounter with Christ. If not, the tendency is for the 2nd generation to simply propagate tradition and then the 3rd generation, sensing the emptiness in that, rebells. Or the older v. younger brother dynamic takes place where both (a la the Prodigal Son) miss the Father in their own brand of rebellion.

Either way, the point was we need our own experience with the living God.

]]> By: dave bish http://www.wordandspirit.co.uk/blog/2009/07/01/church-sell-by-date/comment-page-1/#comment-8305 dave bish Wed, 01 Jul 2009 10:35:53 +0000 http://www.wordandspirit.co.uk/blog/2009/07/01/church-sell-by-date/#comment-8305 Some how always reforming without just being led by the latest fads, has to be returning again and again to the gospel, knowing that the gospel shapes everything but holding loosely to how we think that should look in practice. Some how always reforming without just being led by the latest fads, has to be returning again and again to the gospel, knowing that the gospel shapes everything but holding loosely to how we think that should look in practice.

]]>