Comments on: Benefits of a Large Church? Part 2 http://www.wordandspirit.co.uk/blog/2006/09/25/benefits-of-a-large-church-part-2/ pursuing faithfulness to the Word of God and fullness of the Spirit of God Sat, 21 Jan 2012 12:08:20 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Mark Heath http://www.wordandspirit.co.uk/blog/2006/09/25/benefits-of-a-large-church-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-527 Mark Heath Sun, 01 Oct 2006 18:38:53 +0000 http://markandsteph.plushost.co.uk/blog/?p=217#comment-527 Simon, you have a very valid point. I remember reading someone saying that a common factor in all big churches is a good speaker. He may not be an intellectual or a theologian or even an entertainer, but there is something that makes his congregation willing to listen. So yes, some churches will remain small because their preaching (and often worship) is incredibly dull. However, it is a mistake to think that God only gifts the rare few in preaching and teaching. Its just that the gift needs to be worked on. Its not enough simply to have something to say - you need to be good at saying it too. Simon, you have a very valid point. I remember reading someone saying that a common factor in all big churches is a good speaker. He may not be an intellectual or a theologian or even an entertainer, but there is something that makes his congregation willing to listen.

So yes, some churches will remain small because their preaching (and often worship) is incredibly dull. However, it is a mistake to think that God only gifts the rare few in preaching and teaching. Its just that the gift needs to be worked on. Its not enough simply to have something to say – you need to be good at saying it too.

]]> By: simon raybould http://www.wordandspirit.co.uk/blog/2006/09/25/benefits-of-a-large-church-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-525 simon raybould Sun, 01 Oct 2006 16:40:00 +0000 http://markandsteph.plushost.co.uk/blog/?p=217#comment-525 I'm coming at this from a slightly odd angle, forgive me. I work in the UK as a <a href="http://www.curved-vision.co.uk">voice & presentation skills trainer</a> and amongst others I train priests and lay-preachers in using their Voice etc. so my interest is somewhat professional but biased :) I'm not sure we do people a service by having too many (small) churches because, quite frankly, there aren't that many gread (or even good) preachers to go around. Is it really a good idea to have small congregations (who might feel isolated because they can't see each other) preached to by a poor preacher? The congregation's experience of church won't be good and some new-comers will undoubtedly be put off! Yes, I know, it's a single-minded point of view, but..... Simon I’m coming at this from a slightly odd angle, forgive me.

I work in the UK as a voice & presentation skills trainer and amongst others I train priests and lay-preachers in using their Voice etc. so my interest is somewhat professional but biased :)

I’m not sure we do people a service by having too many (small) churches because, quite frankly, there aren’t that many gread (or even good) preachers to go around. Is it really a good idea to have small congregations (who might feel isolated because they can’t see each other) preached to by a poor preacher? The congregation’s experience of church won’t be good and some new-comers will undoubtedly be put off!

Yes, I know, it’s a single-minded point of view, but…..

Simon

]]> By: Mark Heath http://www.wordandspirit.co.uk/blog/2006/09/25/benefits-of-a-large-church-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-524 Mark Heath Sat, 30 Sep 2006 17:58:55 +0000 http://markandsteph.plushost.co.uk/blog/?p=217#comment-524 some good points Dan. I guess this is the concern that many have - that a mega-church is so preoccupied with its own size that it loses the bigger picture of the kingdom advancing into all the world. And a small church with a "remnant" mentality can fall into the same trap too. some good points Dan. I guess this is the concern that many have – that a mega-church is so preoccupied with its own size that it loses the bigger picture of the kingdom advancing into all the world. And a small church with a “remnant” mentality can fall into the same trap too.

]]> By: Dan http://www.wordandspirit.co.uk/blog/2006/09/25/benefits-of-a-large-church-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-523 Dan Fri, 29 Sep 2006 23:52:15 +0000 http://markandsteph.plushost.co.uk/blog/?p=217#comment-523 I don't think any supporter of the "big" church mentality thinks that just because a church is big, the "the media will gushingly enthuse about churches simply because they are big". If anything I think it opens the said church up to greater criticism. The key problem for the church today according to Ern Baxter is not that the world hates us, but that they are indifferent to us! And he said that is worse. Because if the world hates us, then we are not only fulfilling the promise of Scripture but we are a problem and a challenge to them. When the world is indifferent to the Church, then we aren't a problem and they really couldn't care less about us. I think that big churches cause the world to notice, because their presence upsets the indifferent mentality. While we as Reformed Calvinists ;) know that pure numbers on seats doesn't mean a thing, the crowd mentality always attracts attention. I played the Stoneleigh worship video to a non-Christian friend of mine and the thing he noticed was the thousands who were there. As to your second point noting that the early church was big, I must confess I haven't really thought through that. My thought process tends to follow a more Restorationist train of thought. Yes the 3, 000 saved on the Day of Pentecost I guess does constitute a big church. But if our vision is driven by awesome Scriptures such as "the mountain of God shall be established and all the nations will flow up to it" and "As surely as I live, ALL the earth will be filled with the glory of the Lord", then that constitutes in my mind an idea of large, big, huge!! I don't really have a vision of mega church buildings! I get a thrill from the idea that the Gospel advances around the world with such fury that the Gates of Hell can't stand it, and the only facilities big enough to house the converts coming in are sports arenas!! I don’t think any supporter of the “big” church mentality thinks that just because a church is big, the “the media will gushingly enthuse about churches simply because they are big”. If anything I think it opens the said church up to greater criticism. The key problem for the church today according to Ern Baxter is not that the world hates us, but that they are indifferent to us! And he said that is worse. Because if the world hates us, then we are not only fulfilling the promise of Scripture but we are a problem and a challenge to them. When the world is indifferent to the Church, then we aren’t a problem and they really couldn’t care less about us.

I think that big churches cause the world to notice, because their presence upsets the indifferent mentality. While we as Reformed Calvinists ;) know that pure numbers on seats doesn’t mean a thing, the crowd mentality always attracts attention. I played the Stoneleigh worship video to a non-Christian friend of mine and the thing he noticed was the thousands who were there.

As to your second point noting that the early church was big, I must confess I haven’t really thought through that. My thought process tends to follow a more Restorationist train of thought. Yes the 3, 000 saved on the Day of Pentecost I guess does constitute a big church. But if our vision is driven by awesome Scriptures such as “the mountain of God shall be established and all the nations will flow up to it” and “As surely as I live, ALL the earth will be filled with the glory of the Lord”, then that constitutes in my mind an idea of large, big, huge!!

I don’t really have a vision of mega church buildings! I get a thrill from the idea that the Gospel advances around the world with such fury that the Gates of Hell can’t stand it, and the only facilities big enough to house the converts coming in are sports arenas!!

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