I guess I am “wedded to a separatist ekklesiology”, as I grew up in an independent evangelical church (Baptist by name but not part of the Baptist Union). I had no Christian friends from any other tradition until I went to university. So naturally I don’t really feel like I have “separated” from anything much, and its only since attending New Wine the last few years that i’ve started to learn some of the basic Anglican vocabulary (curate, canon, diocese etc). Perhaps one of us could blog at some time in the future on the pros and cons of being in a “traditional” denomination (having to work in partnership with many of radically differing views) versus being in an independent church (free to do it your own way and partnering with churches you share a common vision and value system with).

Also, I liked your closing paragraph … very profound.

Your comment on “shallow” churches with revolving doors is also perceptive. It is my concern to see churches growing ‘deeper’ as well as bigger numerically. There is a danger that as a church gets too big, the leaders end up so overworked with organising meetings, that they jump on any ways they can ‘mass produce’ church to cut down their work-load.

In theory, us charismatics shouldn’t fall into this trap because we believe in “every member ministry” which scales quite nicely, but in practice it doesn’t always work out that way.

I like the idea of fresh mission keeping the church ‘rooted’ in truth. Mission is always a response to the activity of the Spirit and it is he who maintains and preserves truth and wholeness in the community.

I also agree with your comment about looking to the past. The Church is not an anhistorical revelation of the Spirit’s activity and, as much as we need to be grounded in future mission, we also need the anchor of past wisdom and revelation.

Within the more historic churches this is why Tradition is so important. Not because it ‘trumps’ the bible, but because it actually helps guide interpretation of the bible and provides a ‘common playing field’ to unite ALL Christians in future mission.

The weakness of Restorationism/Renewal churches (which links in with all protestant/’separatist’ ekklesiology) is that they tried to develop a ‘new ekklesiology’ apart from (although not necessarily ‘away from’, although some consciously did!) the historic expressions – which, at best, leads to a ‘two tracked’ (or pluri-tracked, looking at all the ‘options’!) system and, at worse, a failed attempt to re-invent the wheel (‘there is nothing new under the Sun’!).

Interestingly students of history will see that ‘classic’ protestants/reformers such as Luther and Wesley realised this and sought to maintain identity within the historic expressions.

However, due to ‘innovation’ within the last couple of hundred years (the ‘fruit’ of the reformation/enlightenment…) we have the situation where some churches think in terms of Apostles, Evangelists, Prophets, Pastor-teachers and others in terms of Bishops, Elders/Presbyters, Deacons. Some in terms of primacy of the Bible, some in terms of primacy of the ‘Worship experience’ and some in terms of the primacy of Sacraments. The variances could go on….

This all goes to create a headache for missional partnership and a vital expression of Christian unity, but it is a self-caused pain we must now suffer since missional partnership is not optional in Christ!! In truth such ‘variations’ are a testament less to the divine agency of the Spirit (contra the various ‘prophetic claims’) as to the blindness of Man!

I simply refute the notion (pace Terry Virgo) that the Spirit of the Living God, who is the prime agency of Christian Unity within the One body of it’s Lord and Saviour would ‘lead’ any group or person to ‘set up camp’ elsewhere under new headings as a denial of the validity of the rest of the body. But of course if one is wedded to a separatist ekklesiology (as the brethren/baptists who founded NFI were) then such ‘outworkings’ are a matter of cause-and-effect

I’m not unsympathetic to the ‘realities’ of history (the difficulties within traditional denominations, the sluggishness of historical churches etc…) and, of course, would long to see transformation of what is at error (on all sides)- but anyone who has separated (=divided) the body of Christ (whoever they are) will have to give an account to their Lord as to why division was preferable to unity…

The Christian faith, if anything, is a classic example of future hope worked *through* present weakness and anyone who wishes to bypass present tensions in a bid to ‘realise the future’ (as the ‘idealists’ do) must understand that present tension *becomes* the way to the end (surely this is what the cross represents par excellance?) and once this ‘cruciform’ path is ignored the ‘goal’ becomes a willow-the-whisp distortion (whether result driven or otherwise).

Richard

And so on and so on.

It’s interesting you mentioned “saving time”. I heard that comment made by a leader at my home church once after we had made the paradigm shift from charismatic to fully blown cessationist. He said that when we were charismatic, the leaders never knew when they could be woken up in the night to have to come exorcise demons or pray for healing, and they just didn’t “have the time” to keep doing that. With all due respect I think that’s outrageous!! Saving time?! Life in the Holy Spirit demands ALL our time!

If its choosing between a messy “real” church that is true to its vision and longing for more of God, or the perfect “model” church where “No Surprises” are promised on Sunday – well … you know which I’d choose!!

As always the Church seems to swing between extremes. Remnant-mentality characterised by cynicism, and a touch of hyper-Calvinism maybe (“He is sovereign so bad things happening are okay”). And revivalist mentality characterised by a touch of fundementalism, hope and despair, hope and despair etc etc.

I like your conclusion – that church planting is key to keep us in a healthy mindset. New churches must establish their fresh vision, and established churches must continually keep “fresh wineskins” to support those churches that they are planting. We’re on a mission!